honda退出F1

tom2517

6分

101樓

tom2517

個人積分：6分

文章編號：9720423

aab1 wrote:
為何您會說HONDA...(恕刪)

Okay, I used to work in the automotive industry, my family still are but I don't work in the family business anymore. We have long association with Japanese auto companies so I am familiar with their auto industry. Honda is the best engine maker in Japan, even my Toyota friends acknowledge it. In terms engine technology, Honda is first, then Nissan, and then Yamaha. Toyota is great at mass producing cars and marketing. But when it comes to engines, they even asked Yamaha to help design/tune some of their Lexus engines.

It is common to use other company's technology or products in one's own cars. For instance, most of the BMW and Benz uses transmission from a 3rd party manufacturer. Ferrari 599 GTB uses suspension system from Delphi (an American company used to be owned by GM).

Honda is by the way, the world's largest engine manufacturer.

aab1

234分

102樓

aab1

個人積分：234分

文章編號：9741132

tom2517 wrote:
Okay, I us...(恕刪)

受教了,另外我想請教HONDA的財務真的有差到要退出F1嗎?
世界第一大機車製造商,日本第二大汽車製造商,財務真的有這麼
壞?另外想聽聽您對ACURA這個品牌的看法,我一直覺得這個品牌
做得很失敗,感覺就是COPY的HONDA,以LEXUS為例,就是會讓人
感覺它就是獨立的Lexus,而沒有很重的TOYOTA味,當然我是指近期
的LEXUS,不是那個IS200 copy的年代,回到ACURA,我曾經提過個
人感覺是"漢堡吃多了就忘了生魚片"來形容近代acura設計偏向美
國派的趨勢,少了當年我們這年代對日本精緻細膩的做工印象,不是
不好,而是少了一種廠牌的靈魂,它很國際化的運用流線,它很國際化
的用了很多高檔材質,它也很國際化的使用了很多類似別人的元素,
它會讓人感覺它很美很有設計感,內裝很奢華豐富,但它的靈魂是什麼?
當我們看到NSX-R會讓人立刻想起SENNA協助HONDA開發跑車的精
神與價值,以及HONDA 實踐 The power of dreams的堅持,那acura
是為了國際商業化或是為了什麼?

tom2517

6分

103樓

tom2517

個人積分：6分

文章編號：9758098

aab1 wrote:
受教了,另外我想請教...(恕刪)

Automotive industry is all about scale because the profit margin is so little. When the sales volume goes down, it will severely effect the margin. GM is losing 2 billion USD every month because they are not selling enough cars to cover the cost. Even Toyota (the world's most profitable automaker), they were projected to make 14 billion USD this year but lost money instead, because their sales was down more than 20%. The operating cost is very high in the auto industry, hence during a bad year, or bad economic period, they will try to cut cost as much as they can, hence Honda let go of the F1 involvement.

As for Acura, it's too bad, they were in the US market ahead of Lexus and Infiniti, but they weren't making cars that are good enough to distinguish it from Honda, the brand never really took off. After year 2000, their cars were better, but too late to catch Lexus, as the result, they were never really able to get into the high end market (60K USD +, except the NSX, but that car doesn't really count as the volume is way too low). Branding is very important, a successful marketing and image can make all the differences. '

Lexus's target market was the people who bought Benz and Cadillac, while Infiniti's market was the BMW buyers. Unfortunately, people in the US never really bought into Infiniti's brand. Acura now tries to be something in between, especially with their newer cars, they are good cars for sure, but whether or not they will be good sellers, only time will tell.

I know you said something about Acura's design, one thing to remember is, the USA is still world's biggest car market, pretty much most of the car designs are aiming toward that market (especially Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti, they are brands created for the US market), those cars are not designed for Asia market or even the Europe market. The reason? you can't make money in the auto business if you don't make money in USA, Japan's market is way too small to support those Japanese car makers. And forget Europe, it will be years before you see any Japanese makers sell large volumes there...if ever.

aab1

234分

104樓

aab1

個人積分：234分

文章編號：9759114

tom2517 wrote:
Automotive...(恕刪)

謝謝!讓我學到如此豐富受用的知識,可以再針對美國三大車廠的
後續影響提供您寶貴的看法嗎?在business week我看過他們的
分析,但我不是很能理解為何三大車廠金援如此重要針對美國汽車
業來說?民生社會問題我能理解,但是單指汽車品牌來說又是象徵什
麼意義?底特律是造車重鎮的歷史背景我看懂但我不懂這三大品牌
在美國人的心裡是什麼樣的地位,是民族意識或是其他關係,這三大
車廠的營運會出現問題是車輛設計還是銷售問題,有人曾經提到日系
車便宜又省油的特性蠶食了美國本土的汽車業,這樣說公允嗎?

最後還是回到F1,您認為09年的F1會如何進展?honda看起來好像
沒有消息了,冬測一直延宕,感覺不太妙,09年整個好像大洗牌.

tom2517

6分

105樓

tom2517

個人積分：6分

文章編號：9784318

aab1 wrote:
謝謝!讓我學到如此豐...(恕刪)

Maybe you have seen the polls, actually most Americans are against giving money to the big three. They think the big three caused all those problems because they are too arrogant to do any improvement. I have to agree, remember I told you that I used to be in the auto industry, well, once we have this project with Chrysler and the product is already approved and in use with one of the factories. We also know this other Chrysler factory can use the same part, so we did the calculations for them, our product will save them $400K USD annually, but the factory procurement people told me, "unless it saves me over 1 million USD, otherwise I don't have time to start the paperwork."

Sure, 400k USD maybe not be that much, but it's this kind of attitude that is harmful to a company. The big three burn through money so fast, money from government won't be enough, that's why most of the economist think it's a waste of money. It's actually better to let them go bankrupted, because they can then restructure those debts. The only reason this is not happening is because when a company goes into chapter 11, someone will be held responsible, and that person will likely to be the CEO and his team, so that is why they try very hard not to go into chapter 11.

You are right about the Japanese cars, they were able to conquer the US market so fast is because they are cheap, reliable, and efficient. American's are not loyal like the Europeans, they will buy what they think is the best value. This is both good and bad, bad for domestic makers, good for foreign makers, that's why all foreign automakers put US as the number 1 market to get into.

As for Honda in F1, well, other engine makers comes and goes, maybe when the economy turns for the better, Honda will return. I don't think Honda is leaving forever, especially if Toyota is still in it.

irvine230230

416分

106樓

irvine230230

個人積分：416分

文章編號：10483815

我倒是很佩服TOYOTA的勇於投入

畢竟TOYOTA是從無到有，而且也進入中段班了

initiald666

3分

107樓

initiald666

個人積分：3分

文章編號：10521593

工地 wrote:
對於某A兄...在下...(恕刪)

因為A兄被在路上亂竄的HONDA C系列電到哇哇叫...

又要馬兒跑又要馬兒不吃草

aab1

234分

108樓

aab1

個人積分：234分

文章編號：10534134

irvine230230 wrote:
我倒是很佩服TOYO...(恕刪)

關於這點我個人覺得TOYOTA在淡化HONDA競賽的印象色彩,並且把
這個特色吸納到自己一部份的品牌形象中,是一種"大戰略"吧!TOYOTA
以全方位來發展,只要被它發展起來,其他很多廠商的特色就會被淡化甚至
取代,看看現在的HONDA還剩下什麼?同cc數引擎多一兩匹的馬力?高效率
的hybird?高級奢華的產品?或者是馳騁賽道的戰績?真的是為HONDA感到
憂心.

CharAznable

21分

109樓

CharAznable

個人積分：21分

文章編號：10612307

HONDA退出F1真是讓我錯愕與遺憾...
說是財務因素.但我觀察下來似乎不是這樣.
應該說HONDA高層的理念已跟HONDA的本質越偏越遠了.
F1已經不是HONDA現在所想要極力追求的.退出是最好的選擇.
看的出來HONDA想要轉型.車種越來越T牌化....
相信MARK換成T牌的.也不會有太突兀的感覺....
但這些改變說真的:讓我暈倒.也有點無法接受....
品牌的核心價值似乎已不見.那還剩下什麼....
說真的我不知道.................................................